PART 2: JAZ and YOUTH
-Some people were complaining about the length of the LP. It had two tracks that had already been out. Do you reckon it was a bit short or not?
Jaz: What, the last album? I do actually, butÉ there again the price was a lot cheaper. I mean, there's no shitting out. It was...what?, 3.50, 3.99? Legally you could put that out at 5.99 if you really wanted. But it's fucking 3.99. The latest album is a lot longer. There's eight tracks & the whole album is like 43, 44 minutes. Which is long enough.
-Do you believe in leaders?
Jaz: You're talking about 'Follow The Leaders', right? Well, I mean 'Follow The Leaders' is fucking, you know, a bit fucking... I mean, people have always followed leaders, haven't they? It don't matter what fucking stage civilisation gets to, they always fucking follow leaders. It's, likeÉ the irony of the situation, isn't it?
-Do you reckon that some people look on you as leaders?
Jaz: I dunno. I like to think that people sort of, you know... get a little peace of mind knowing that there's other people in the same situation.
Youth: You've got to find your own fucking answers.
Jaz: It's not hard to find the answer. It all comes down to your personal point of view again, you know what I mean? Everyone's got different points of view and they're all probably as relevant as each other. I mean, together, right, there's four of us in the band and all our ideas sort of come out, you know what I mean? And that's very sort of like... It's how we see it, right. But, I mean, it's all a fucking point of view, right? I believe inÉ before you start mouthing off about your fucking manifestos and ideals and all that... in establishing first, before fucking
Youth: Doing what you're saying.
Jaz: Before you start fucking talking about what you're gonna do to change the world fucking change it and then fucking talk about it. Seems logical to me. I believe there's a lot of other people in this, that realise the situation we're all in, right, and my faith is with them. Not only in this country. There's loads of people who are living in this position, from Russia to fucking Poland, to East Germany, West Germany and it's all the Killing Joke. I mean there's cunts in fucking Russia just like you and me young, right they've got no control over their destiny, just like fucking you and me haven't. That's the Killing Joke.
-When you say that, do you mean everyday people that may not have heard of Killing Joke?
Jaz: Well, I mean Killing Joke is not just fucking music. It's a name, a gateway to put up loads of things, apart from music. Ideas, philosophies, films, music anything you want, but it's just a frame of mind. You know what Killing Joke is. We don't want no manifestos, right until we've fucking done what we wanna do, right, we've fucking got somewhere, right and then we'll fucking talk about what it's been like getting to that point.
-So are you aiming to do something?
Jaz: Fucking right we are gonna do something! I'll tell you another thing I wanna fucking talk about, and that's the first album. The time we recorded that we were going through what I'd call a fucking heavy nuclear thing. Now in this sort of time, we all go through this stage where we're fucking paranoid about being fucking blown up by the big bomb that the other side have like, there's more to it than that. I mean, you can be fucking paranoid. I believe you live as long as you wanna live, see? Now if they've got a lot of people thinking, "God there's gonna be a Third World War," you're getting people who are sort of invoking it they're making other people feel fucking paranoid. Like when we fucking play 'Wardance', that is just fucking coming to terms, having a laugh at the situation, you know what I mean?
Youth: It isn't exactly jolly music.
Jaz: I tell you, every time we play it we have a fucking laugh though, that one. From Germany to France, you get all the fucking headbangers they know what you're talking about when you fucking play that one. And it's a laugh you get it off your chest. You feel better after you've played 'Wardance', you know what I mean?
-How do you see the group getting bigger?
Jaz: We might get ourselves a new flat!É Fuck-all changes. You hardly notice it. I mean, we've gotta pay so much before we fucking start to make any money anyway.
Youth: We're in debt.
Jaz: A fortune!
-How long will it take you to pay that back?
Jaz: About a century. The point is, we're still in a position to be able to fucking do what we want, right. As soon as we get time we can fuck off to the other side of the world if we want to, just for a little fucking romp. We can do it, we're in a position to do it. Pull a few strings. How much money do you get a week?
-Just about thirty.
Jaz: Right we get about the same amount as you do. Each. The only difference is, we make a noise for it. You fucking write. I'd sign on if I could, but I can't. They'd fucking do me good and proper, wouldn't they? Not that I want their filthy money anyway.
Youth: People don't like changes, right. They don't like people wanting to change their attitude
Jaz: Go on, ask another question then.
-When you were up at Better Badges you were going on about going to America and going for the highest bidder
Jaz: Well naturallyÉ I hate America though. It stinks. A lot of bands have fucking got the right idea over here, insofar as no-one gives a fuck about establishing any ideas or views in America. They just wanna fucking get their money. But any bands that go over there... I don't know. If they've got anything about them... There are some decent people out there, but some kids take it a bit too far. That's the shame about America. There must be about 0.2% of the population you meet that actually can think for themselves. And some of them are really decent people. Fucking hellÉ it's very sad.
-Whenever you go over there, do you just play anywhere you can get the most money?
Jaz: We take anything we can get our fucking hands on mostly.
-Would you play places where you could lose money on the journey?
Jaz: We lose money on the fucking journey anyway. I mean, we fucking sell out the Lyceum, right they make seven grand on the door and we get a fiver eachÉ You fucking work that one out.
-Do you believe in equality?
Jaz: I fucking do! It's like...yeah, course I fucking you know, we all fucking got two arms, two legs. Unless you're a thalidomide.
Youth: Winner takes all, right? Everybody's the same in a
Jaz: Mr. Brezhnev has still got more than the fucking worker, hasn't he?
-Is that your definition of equality then?
Youth: No, no. That's a definition.
-Do you get raided a lot for dope up here?
Jaz: Not interested. I'd hear about it before it happened. My uncle's a councillor, he fucking tells me if they're fucking sniffing around.
-Because apparently the SPG came around here
Jaz: That was when we were living over in Elgin Crescent. I went out in the dark with a gun and some reporter said he'd seen "a dark person..." this was the time of the Iranian thing "a dark person with a gun, looming about."
Youth: My bedroom door got kicked down about five times in the period of one month. People were just coming in, bursting in
Jaz: No, listen, right. Anyone who's got a little sense will have as little to do with the police as possible.
Youth: We're outside of the police.
Jaz: Occasionally we do things like nick the odd pint of milk from the doorstep across the road, but apart from these minor incidents I don't think we've really got much to do with them at all.
-Do you get a lot of people coming round here?
Youth: Nutters. We get a lot of nutters.
Jaz: It depends what their motivation is. If they want to come and talk to us... have a smoke and a bit of a laugh it's all right.
-Do you really hate interviewers?
Jaz: No, it's all right sitting here and answering questions. It's just that you get some real tossers round here at times. I like fanzines 'cause they don't take such a pig-headed view of it. They don't really go in to rip a band to pieces they just don't write about a band if they're not interested in the fucking band. I think fanzines are great.
-What about In the City calling Youth an irresponsible prat advocating drugs?
Jaz: There's nothing wrong with fucking drugs.
Youth: Drugs are great.
Jaz: It depends how they're used, you know what I mean? I don't like speed and all that kind of stuff anymore. I like a bit of cokeÉ when it's free of charge.
-What do you think of Paul Morley and
Jaz: Well he's a cunt. He's just a... well, I won't say it. He's done us a few favours, he's a good bloke. He actually likes music and he don't wanna fucking really slag bands off. He's just a bit of an idiot. But he's all right really for all that. He's just very very naive. You can't help liking him.
-...I think that's about it...
Jaz: It is? Just keep going. See if you get any more ideas. That's how I prefer doing them.
-Was I imagining this? When I came through Brixton yesterday it was all blocked off police everywhere and I came up here and there was heavier than normal police presence...
Jaz: 'Course there will be! It's the only really big black area, isn't it? When the Bristol thing happened the police stepped up around this area. And I'll tell you they'll try and fucking rehouse all the black people in this area outside London.
Youth: They did that in the fifties.
Jaz: They're trying to do that now. I know 'cause my uncle's in the fucking council and he knows. The Tory people really don't like the Rastas and all that.
-Do you reckon what people in Brixton are doing can change anything?
Youth: Only make it fucking worse for themselves.
Jaz: Yeah. I mean I sympathise, right, but look at what's gonna fucking happen out of that. You see how the television's portraying it they're saying The Blacks. It's just increasing the fucking racial tension. What's happened over there and what they're putting through the TV are two different things. They haven't given the facts why it fucking all happens it's all Black Youths, you know what I mean?
-Do you think that people down there have got some sort of suss of the Killing Joke?
Jaz: Yeah, I think so. A lot of people, all types of people, understand what we're getting to. They've got different words for it. They talk about "pressure." It's all the same, isn't it? Different words.
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